Finetuning is dead. Finetuning is only for style. We've all heard these claims. But the truth is we feel this way because all we've been doing is extended pretraining. I'm excited to chat about what real finetuning looks like - modifying output heads, loss functions and model layers, and it's implications on quality and latency. Happy to dive deeper into how DeepSeek leveraged this real version of finetuning through GRPO and how this is nothing more than a rediscovery of our old finetuning ways. I'm sure we'll naturally also dive into when developing and deploying your specialized models makes sense and the challenges you face when doing so.

Shiny new objects are made available to artificial intelligence(AI) practitioners daily. For many who are not AI practitioners, the release of ChatGPT in 2022 was their first contact with modern AI technology. This led to a flurry of funding and excitement around how AI might improve their bottom line. Two years on, the novelty of AI has worn off for many companies but remains a strategic initiative. This strategic nuance has led to two patterns that suggest a maturation of the AI conversation across industries. First, conversations seem to be pivoting from "Are we doing [the shiny new thing]" to serious analysis of the ROI from things built. This reframe places less emphasis on simply adopting new technologies for the sake of doing so and more emphasis on the optimal stack to maximize return relative to cost. Second, conversations are shifting to emphasize market differentiation. That is, anyone can build products that wrap around LLMs. In competitive markets, creating products and functionality that all your competitors can also build is a poor business strategy (unless having a particular thing is industry standard). Creating a competitive advantage requires companies to think strategically about their unique data assets and what they can build that their competitors cannot.

Demetrios talks with Rohit Agrawal, Director of Engineering at Tecton, about the challenges and future of streaming data in ML. Rohit shares his path at Tecton and insights on managing real-time and batch systems. They cover tool fragmentation (Kafka, Flink, etc.), infrastructure costs, managed services, and trends like using S3 for storage and Iceberg as the GitHub for data. The episode wraps with thoughts on BYOC solutions and evolving data architectures.

Rafael Sandroni shares key insights on securing AI systems, tackling fraud, and implementing robust guardrails. From prompt injection attacks to AI-driven fraud detection, we explore the challenges and best practices for building safer AI.

Animesh discusses LLMs at scale, GPU infrastructure, and optimization strategies. He highlights LinkedIn's use of LLMs for features like profile summarization and hiring assistants, the rising cost of GPUs, and the trade-offs in model deployment. Animesh also touches on real-time training, inference efficiency, and balancing infrastructure costs with AI advancements. The conversation explores the evolving AI landscape, compliance challenges, and simplifying architecture to enhance scalability and talent acquisition.

Allegra joins the podcast to discuss how Responsible AI (RAI) extends beyond traditional pillars like transparency and privacy. While these foundational elements are crucial, true RAI success requires deeply embedding responsible practices into organizational culture and decision-making processes. Drawing from Lumiera's comprehensive approach, Allegra shares how organizations can move from checkbox compliance to genuine RAI integration that drives innovation and sustainable AI adoption.

Demetrios chats with David Hershey from Anthropic’s Applied AI team about his agent-powered Pokémon project using Claude. They explore agent frameworks, prompt optimization vs. fine-tuning, and AI’s growing role in software, legal, and accounting fields. David highlights how managed AI platforms simplify deployment, making advanced AI more accessible.

George Mathew (Insight Partners) joins Demetrios to break down how AI and ML have evolved over the past few years and where they’re headed. He reflects on the major shifts since his last chat with Demetrios, especially how models like ChatGPT have changed the game. George dives into "generational outcomes"—building companies with lasting impact—and the move from rule-based software to AI-driven reasoning engines. He sees AI becoming a core part of all software, fundamentally changing business operations. The chat covers the rise of agent-based systems, the importance of high-quality data, and recent breakthroughs like Deep SEQ, which push AI reasoning further. They also explore AI’s future—its role in software, enterprise adoption, and everyday life.