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Walking Tokyo Talking Agent Protocols
Posted Sep 18, 2026 | Views 6
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Speakers
Angie Jones
VP of Developer Experience @ Agentic AI Foundation
Angie Jones is the VP of the Agentic AI Foundation, where she guides the design, implementation, and adoption of agentic systems across the global developer ecosystem.
An award-winning educator and international keynote speaker, Angie shares her extensive knowledge with software companies and conference audiences worldwide.
As a Master Inventor, Angie is recognized for her innovative, out-of-the-box thinking, which has led to 27 patented inventions in virtual worlds, collaboration software, social networking, smarter planet initiatives, and software development processes.
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Demetrios Brinkmann
Chief Happiness Engineer @ MLOps Community
At the moment Demetrios is immersing himself in Machine Learning by interviewing experts from around the world in the weekly MLOps.community meetups. Demetrios is constantly learning and engaging in new activities to get uncomfortable and learn from his mistakes. He tries to bring creativity into every aspect of his life, whether that be analyzing the best paths forward, overcoming obstacles, or building lego houses with his daughter.
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SUMMARY
Two people, a wrong turn into a back alley, a community garden, and about thirty minutes of arguing about protocols on the streets of Tokyo.
The guest is Angie Jones, VP of Developer Experience at the Agentic AI Foundation, fresh off launching AGNTCon + MCPCon in China before the Tokyo stop. She opens with what she learned there: a mobile-first, super-app world where the integration problem most of us obsess over barely exists, where every conversation about agents is really a conversation about the model, and where companies are now reaching for MCP and A2A precisely because they want to operate outside that ecosystem.
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CONTENT & TRANSCRIPT
Angie Jones: [00:00:00] At some point in the last couple of years, I have become a protocol girly. I realized this about myself. Yeah, I've been following the agentic commerce- Mm-hmm ... uh, space pretty closely, so things like Universal Commerce Protocol.
Demetrios: Yep.
Angie Jones: UCP.
Demetrios: There's Agentic Commerce Protocol. Is that one?
Angie Jones: There's a Agentic Payment Protocol.
Angie Jones: Oh, that was it.
Demetrios: AP2. Yeah, AP2.
Angie Jones: So that's all that good stuff going on. It's fascinating because even if you figured the web browsing part out- Mm-hmm ... it's like, h- okay, how does it purchase? Like- Yeah ... you don't wanna give it your credit
Demetrios: card. Yeah.
Demetrios: You've been to China?
Angie Jones: I have. All
Demetrios: right. Tell me about it.
Angie Jones: China was great. Uh, this was our first time, uh, there in the country. Uh, we did a little meetup [00:01:00] before the conference. That was great, and then we... This was the first stop of our brand-new conference, AgentCon MCPCon. Yes. So it was a great turnout.
Angie Jones: Sold-out event.
Demetrios: Nice. And
Angie Jones: we planned for like-
Demetrios: Gotta love that.
Angie Jones: Yeah. We planned for like 600, had 800 there. Um, and it was amazing. The energy was really good.
Demetrios: What was the hallway track that we can't see on YouTube?
Angie Jones: Yeah. You know what's really interesting is coming from North America-
Demetrios: Yeah ...
Angie Jones: we know how we use coding agents and, uh, how we build these agentic systems.
Angie Jones: What I learned there is the culture is quite different in a couple ways.
Demetrios: Yeah.
Angie Jones: One is they're very mobile first, right? And so where we're using, uh, AI and we need to connect to all of these different SaaS applications, not that big a deal there, right? The [00:02:00] other thing that was really fascinating is they have super apps.
Angie Jones: So whereas we are like, "Oh, I need to connect my agent to that thing, and then that thing, and then that other agent, and then this system."
Demetrios: They don't have to worry about that. They're like, "No. Why would I, why would I do that? I don't need an API." But
Angie Jones: the app is,
Demetrios: is everything.
Angie Jones: Yeah. Yeah, I have everything. Whoa.
Angie Jones: Shit. It's everything is in one app. So, uh- Oh ... there's not a lot of integration concerns, you know?
Demetrios: Oh.
Angie Jones: Yeah. Fascinating.
Demetrios: Yeah. So then the... If they can do everything in that one app, all that matters is that the agent can work well in that app.
Angie Jones: In that app. So- And it's this domain. I don't need to know about that domain.
Angie Jones: Now-
Demetrios: Uh-huh ...
Angie Jones: what they are starting to realize is that works pretty well in China.
Demetrios: Yeah.
Angie Jones: When you want to extend beyond the country, which many of the companies did express the desire to do.
Demetrios: Understandable.
Angie Jones: Now we gotta [00:03:00] rethink some things.
Demetrios: Yeah. And so then- They're like, "Yeah, maybe MCP is a good idea, or agent-to-agent might be useful for us."
Angie Jones: No, they were very familiar with these, and they do use both of those, uh, protocols. So, uh, yeah, they, they are building systems using both MCP and, and A2A. So they shared, you know, some of the things they were building. Companies like Tencent, who makes WeChat, for example. Yeah. They use A2A pretty heavily.
Angie Jones: But like, yeah, companies like Tencent, that makes WeChat, they use A2A pretty heavily there. Uh, also Huawei, they use it in their stack as well. And so it was fascinating hearing the talks and essentially seeing the diagrams and where they plug these protocols in.
Demetrios: Yeah, that's always quite useful to see, like, how they're thinking about it in this way that they're like, "Oh, we're used to working with this one super app, [00:04:00] but now we want to try and figure out how can we plug in with, uh...
Demetrios: when we go outside of this-" Yeah ... "ecosystem." And so you get that new thing. Yeah. Anything else in China? 'Cause I always thought of China as like They're putting agents into everything. Like I've heard they put agents into the car, they put agents into their, the random like bikes or their toasters- Yeah ... and all that Internet of Things that you always hear about.
Angie Jones: Yeah. I think the other thing that was really interesting is they are a very model-first country. Oh. So no conversation about Agentic AI happened without a significant portion of that conversation being about the model itself.
Demetrios: Mm.
Angie Jones: Whereas, I don't know, other places I go, that's kind of a solved problem.
Angie Jones: Yeah. You know, I just rent a model out- Yeah ... or whatever, pay somebody for token usage.
Demetrios: Yeah.
Angie Jones: Uh, these companies, everyone's kind of building their own or using some [00:05:00] open weight model that they then- Yeah ... could, you know, customize for their own needs. Oh.
Demetrios: So they were focused a lot on what the models were doing- Oh, yeah
Demetrios: and what models they were using, and then how the harnesses fit with those models- Right ... I imagine.
Angie Jones: Right.
Demetrios: Huh. Okay. I like that insight because there's a lot of, it's true, they're doing a lot of innovative stuff with their models, and they also have a lot of these model labs that are there. And so-
Angie Jones: Mm-hmm
Demetrios: any harness talk?
Angie Jones: They have their own- Mm-hmm ... coding agents that are really popular there, like, uh, OpenJun for example. Oh,
Demetrios: yeah.
Angie Jones: Right? Uh, and so I didn't hear much about some of the harnesses that are popular in North America.
Demetrios: Yeah. Huh. So they had the harness, the OpenJun is attached to a specific model?
Angie Jones: I'm not sure.
Demetrios: [00:06:00] Yeah, I don't know anything about all that. That's-
Angie Jones: I know.
Demetrios: Yeah. I realize they've gotta probably have a bunch of cool harnesses that they're using or their own specific brand of them. So all right, well, what else has been on your mind lately?
Angie Jones: Now we're in Japan.
Demetrios: Yeah.
Angie Jones: And, uh, this conference.
Demetrios: Pan around. Get a view of the
Angie Jones: And, uh, the AgentCon/NCPCon in Japan is off to a great start as well. Lots of excitement here. Um, and then next is Europe and North America, so-
Demetrios: Amsterdam ... world
Angie Jones: tour.
Demetrios: It's, it's been back to back, huh?
Angie Jones: Yes, it has. Yeah. And
Demetrios: you know what I, I actually wanted to talk to you about too is WebMCP.
Demetrios: I know you've been writing a bit about that. Yeah. I've been diving into it too. I find it fascinating. The thing that I find hard about it, and you tell me where I'm [00:07:00] wrong on this, is y- everybody has to adopt WebMCP for it to be super valuable, right? Or is that not necessarily-
Angie Jones: No, you're right. Uh, that does need to occur.
Angie Jones: Essentially, we need to tweak the way that we build web applications. Yeah. So at some point in the last couple of years, I have become a protocol girly.
Demetrios: Yeah.
Angie Jones: Um, I realized this about myself, and so I pay attention to the landscape. Since about January-
Demetrios: Mm ...
Angie Jones: and now is what, September?
Demetrios: Yeah.
Angie Jones: Since about January, I've been like, "Yo, everybody, look at this WebMCP- Yeah
Angie Jones: like, we should be using this," and nobody was really paying close attention to it.
Demetrios: And it has no relation to MCP despite the name. It's not
Angie Jones: like- The only relationship is, uh, tool calling.
Demetrios: Okay.
Angie Jones: So that was the inspiration, like, what if we put tool calling [00:08:00] in the web page itself, right? So that's the correlation, but the way that it's built out and everything is, is different.
Demetrios: And it's for specifically when you need to use computer use or browser use with your agents. So-
Angie Jones: When you need, when you and your agent need to collab on the same site together, right? Yeah. So if we thought about the difference with, like, why wouldn't we just use WebMCP for-
Demetrios: Yeah ...
Angie Jones: somebody's app.
Demetrios: What's wrong with MCP
Angie Jones: versus WebMCP?
Angie Jones: Yeah, M- yo, MCP. So using MCP, my agent doesn't need me. It's calling it through, uh, the session, right? Yeah. We probably doesn't even need to open a browser.
Demetrios: Yeah.
Angie Jones: Um, versus WebMCP, then my session, my logged in session, is what the agent now has access to, which also means the tools that are available on that website are contextual.
Angie Jones: Yeah. So it's not like, "Oh, here's every tool [00:09:00] ever for my app." It's like-
Demetrios: It's what I
Angie Jones: see ... given where you are right now-
Demetrios: Logged in. Uh.
Angie Jones: Right? You're on the cart page.
Demetrios: Yep. Yeah.
Angie Jones: Here are the f- the tools that are available to call.
Demetrios: Oh, I didn't realize it was even specific to the page that you're on- Yes. Yes ... too, and so the buyer's journey or the user's journey, whatever that journey is.
Demetrios: And I, I was always thinking of it as, like, from the authorization perspective of- Mm ... "Oh, I'm now able to see this. I'm in HubSpot, and I have- Ah ... these permissions," or, "I'm in Salesforce- Yeah ... type of thing. I have these permissions. Yeah. But this is much different in that, "Oh, I'm on this page. I have- Exactly
Demetrios: these set of tools that I can use."
Angie Jones: Auth and that part, the- Mm-hmm ... the tool part. So- I think th- this is just my, my, my guess, right?
Demetrios: Mm-hmm.
Angie Jones: Um, the reason this was a slow sleeper-
Demetrios: Yeah. ...
Angie Jones: is because the agents hadn't gotten this far yet, right? It was [00:10:00] only recently when- They
Demetrios: weren't that good. Oh my God, it got so good overnight.
Demetrios: Yeah. Yeah,
Angie Jones: that's so true. It was only when, um, ChatGPT kinda launched ChatB- Chat- ChatGPT Work.
Demetrios: Yep.
Angie Jones: With ChatGPT Work- It got so good ... now there's a in-session browser. Yeah. Now it can do things for you, and they recognize computer use by itself is not that great.
Demetrios: Yeah.
Angie Jones: Right? Like, the, the agent has to do a lot.
Angie Jones: It has to take screenshots. Mm-hmm. It's pretty slow. It's not in my session.
Demetrios: Yep.
Angie Jones: It's logged into some, some, uh, anonymous browser session. Yeah. Right? So they recognize the challenges, which is, again, this is just my thought. I'm not speaking on behalf of OpenAI. Just claiming. But this is why they launched that hackathon- Oh
Angie Jones: because to your point, damn, we need everybody- Yeah ... to put this in their website in order for this to work. Let's make this catch on, right? Oh, that's so true. So this is way more token efficient, right? Mm-hmm. Um, and I need to be able to get to the [00:11:00] user session instead of logging in in some anonymous browser.
Demetrios: And it's reliable too, right? Because-
Angie Jones: Yeah,
Demetrios: much more ... if you're given the tools that they have access to-
Angie Jones: Exactly ...
Demetrios: then you're not having the web browser or the model just screenshot and then be like- Screenshot ... "Oh, I need to click this button" They have to search the DOM. Yeah. They have to
Angie Jones: search the accessibility tree.
Demetrios: It's so messy.
Angie Jones: And it's using up all my tokens. Yeah.
Demetrios: I will say, though, you make a great point that when Work came out, I started using computer use much more.
Angie Jones: Exactly.
Demetrios: And I was blown away at how good it was.
Angie Jones: Yeah.
Demetrios: Because there all of a sudden became this, like, night and day of, uh, it can fill out forms online for me- Yeah
Demetrios: that it couldn't do before.
Angie Jones: Yeah.
Demetrios: It can go and it can check in to my flight for me. Yeah. And it couldn't do that before reliably, but I don't think that's because of WebMCP. So now it's able to do that-
Angie Jones: Yeah ...
Demetrios: already as, like, the baseline, and if we can get- If you
Angie Jones: can, yeah. You
Demetrios: can ... [00:12:00] everybody on board of WebMCP-
Angie Jones: This becomes even smoother
Demetrios: uh, that's why I'm, I'm pretty WebMCP pilled-
Angie Jones: Okay ...
Demetrios: if you wanna call it that, because of the value from computer use. Where I do see it falling over is that after using computer use, like, pretty religiously for the past two months, three months-
Angie Jones: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm
Demetrios: Sometimes it totally takes over my computer and then I have to like change and figure out a different way to do something-
Angie Jones: Yes
Demetrios: because I can't use my computer anymore. And then other times it will be really slow. And hopefully WebMSP actually can fix that because it knows and it doesn't have to just, you know, like futz around and figure things out. But those are my two kind of like grievances, if you will- Yeah. Yeah ... with computer use and browser use in general.[00:13:00]
Demetrios: It's a little bit slow, and it takes over the computer.
Angie Jones: Yeah. Yep.
Demetrios: Maybe WebMCP... And I do know that, I will say, like, you don't necessarily need it to take over your computer if you install the plugin and you have- The
Angie Jones: browser plugin?
Demetrios: Yeah. It can work- Yeah, yeah ... in the background.
Angie Jones: But what if-
Demetrios: Yeah ...
Angie Jones: that session was- Yeah
Angie Jones: in the browser- In the chat ... was in the chat. Yeah. We didn't have to launch a browser.
Demetrios: Exactly.
Angie Jones: But we, we can both collaborate at the same time.
Demetrios: Right.
Angie Jones: And then you don't need to take over my computer.
Demetrios: Exactly.
Angie Jones: That's what we're aiming for.
Demetrios: That's, that's the WebMCP standard that we're trying for, right?
Angie Jones: Yep.
Demetrios: And I also noticed, now that you mention that, that's such a great point because sometimes I'll ask the agent to do something that is, I say go use computer use, because a lot of times I'm already logged in- Mm ... to, like, five different Gmails or my- Mm ... Slack or my whatever, and if it's a [00:14:00] bulk action or if it's, like, a repetitive thing that it needs to do 40 times-
Angie Jones: Yeah
Demetrios: that's where the slowness comes. Uh-huh. So I should, like, specify. And it's not just slow always.
Angie Jones: Yeah.
Demetrios: It's slow when it needs to do a lot of things. Gotcha. And that's where you would, like, hope that it defaults to using APIs or MCP. But
Angie Jones: that'd be great. It could write itself a little script- Yeah ... or something to-
Demetrios: And it could s- exactly
Angie Jones: call those tools.
Demetrios: Should we go... I, I realized I took a wrong turn up here. I wanna go to this, like, back alleyway. We got a little bit of time, so. That's WebMCP. Um, anything else that gets you stoked on it?
Angie Jones: You know, I think this gives web developers, uh, some excitement. They haven't had- Mm ... excitement in a while.
Angie Jones: Like, you know, nobody's making a new release of React or anything. Yeah. Like, there's no new- No ... frameworks coming out. Yeah. Remember there were so many- Yeah ... every given month.
Demetrios: Everybody went to AI, and- Yeah ... then they stopped.
Angie Jones: Yeah, that's so true. So I think this gives them something, like, exciting to do again.
Angie Jones: Like- ... [00:15:00] oh, okay, I can go build a website and put some tools in it. And I think this is- Yeah ... gonna be, like, the future of software development in general. Like-
Demetrios: Mm.
Angie Jones: Versus just cranking out code, it'll be how do we make agentic systems.
Demetrios: Yeah.
Angie Jones: Um, and they're focusing on the web first, so that's really cool.
Demetrios: There is something that is a little bit more of like a, I'm not gonna say, like, moral issue, but just, like, kind of conflicting paradigm that I feel like a lot of folks find themselves in.
Demetrios: And that is if I now am a e-commerce site-
Angie Jones: Yeah ...
Demetrios: and I am fully all in on agents and WebMCP and all that fun stuff-
Angie Jones: Yeah
Demetrios: Then I am losing first-party data of my potential customers because it's all gonna happen through an agent. And so if you're a traditional e-commerce [00:16:00] site, you may not be as willing to give that up-
Angie Jones: Hmm
Demetrios: because you've been so used to it, and so it's really hard for you to be like, "Oh, now we're just gonna say, all right, cool. We don't need this anymore."
Angie Jones: Well-
Demetrios: But if you're a new one, maybe you're like, "Yeah, well, it doesn't matter. I'm cool with an agent being my primary user." You just don't get that intent.
Demetrios: You don't get that first-party data anymore.
Angie Jones: I don't, I don't think they're gonna let that go. Yeah. And, uh, here's a reason why. There's, like, regulation. Um- Yeah ... so I used to work, uh, at Block. Yeah. So I worked in, like, uh, before coming here on a, a cross-border payment-
Demetrios: Ooh ...
Angie Jones: protocol.
Demetrios: Sounds-
Angie Jones: I think that's where I came- Yeah
Angie Jones: real protocol girl. But- Yeah ... I learned a lot about money-
Demetrios: Mm-hmm ...
Angie Jones: how money moves, and what you need to move money, right? There is not A way to allow a random agent- Mm-hmm ... right now [00:17:00] to buy anything. It will- Yeah ... have to be attached to a human customer. A human
Demetrios: session,
Angie Jones: right? So you will still get, it's called KY-
Demetrios: Yeah
Angie Jones: C, know your customer. Know your
Demetrios: customer.
Angie Jones: So that's regulation. Yeah. It doesn't matter if you put another actor in front of that, now it'll become KYA- Yeah ... know your agent, plus- ... KYC, who does that agent represent? We got a new
Demetrios: protocol coming out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Watch out. So
Angie Jones: yeah, so like a bunch of agentic commerce protocols, like every- Yeah
Angie Jones: like financial institution is working on this right now, and many of them are doing so at the Agentic AI Foundation. Mm-hmm. And, uh, we have an Agentic Commerce Working Group.
Demetrios: That's it.
Angie Jones: And, uh, these folks are looking at like every stage of a purchase, and how do we agentify this both legally and, you know, something that is like convenient for the, the user.
Demetrios: Yeah. Because the thing with the legal side, I f- totally on [00:18:00] board with that. You have to have something that tells who's making this purchase. Otherwise, if it's completely anonymized, it's going to be very hard to get that through on the regulation level.
Angie Jones: Mm-hmm.
Demetrios: However, I think there's a lot of that metadata or just like session data that the companies, the e-commerce companies like Amazon, for example- Yeah, yeah
Demetrios: or any of your Shopify stores, they get, and we've optimized for the last 20 years- Yeah ... for humans doing that.
Angie Jones: Yeah.
Demetrios: So for example, like trying to upsell them when they're in the checkout, they have everything on the cart. Ah, ah, ah. "Oh, if you, if you pay two more dollars- Ah ... you can get free shipping."
Angie Jones: Yeah.
Demetrios: The agent may or may not care about that. Nothing.
Angie Jones: Yeah, that's true.
Demetrios: So now we have to rethink, how are we gonna get that agent to care? Or-
Angie Jones: Without bugging me- Yeah ... because as a human- Exactly ... I don't want you to bother me and say, "Hey, do you wanna add this up?"
Demetrios: $2- Yeah ... because we get free shipping, and it, I've done the math and it's actually not that good, but it'll get you...
Demetrios: And [00:19:00] by the way, we gotta get on their mailing list too, so I can sign you up for it, and then I'll instantly delete it. But as the person who has that e-commerce store, now I'm like-
Angie Jones: Right ... "
Demetrios: Well, shoot."
Angie Jones: Right.
Demetrios: My-
Angie Jones: That's a good point ...
Demetrios: I've ab- absolutely tanked my upsells because of this, or potentially I also have nobody signing up for my emails anymore because it's all agents, and they blow right past that.
Angie Jones: Mm-hmm.
Demetrios: And so there's these- Mm ... things that we've done that are optimized for human use.
Angie Jones: Yeah.
Demetrios: And think about all the recommender systems too-
Angie Jones: Mm-hmm ...
Demetrios: that we've given, especially when you have Amazon out there, and everything is like, you know, add this to cart, add that to cart. Oh, here we recommend this or that.
Angie Jones: Yeah.
Demetrios: But that's me as a human browsing, and I get captivated by that.
Angie Jones: Yeah.
Demetrios: My agent doesn't necessarily care- At
Angie Jones: all ...
Demetrios: about any of that. It just goes and it has one goal.
Angie Jones: Very
Demetrios: laser-focused. It gets done, and it's [00:20:00] good.
Angie Jones: Yeah. That's true.
Demetrios: So those are things that I think now the folks who have these e-commerce companies-
Angie Jones: Mm-hmm
Demetrios: they're starting to wonder, like, what does that look like in a world... Am, am I okay not being able to add a recommender to an agent session? And so yeah, tho- those are, those are my thoughts on the, especially when you're like, if it's a WebMCP session- Mm-hmm ... and it's kind of a user, but it's not acting like a user, that's where I, I find it's the new companies are probably going to have the most success because they're going to be all right with this new paradigm of, ah, I don't actually need the data.
Demetrios: I'll figure out a better way to get the-
Angie Jones: Mm ...
Demetrios: agents to do it, and the older companies that are stuck in more of like a, we have to have all of this first party session data. That's WebMCP. What, uh... Any other protocols that you've been excited about since you are the protocol maestro?
Angie Jones: Yeah, I've [00:21:00] been following the, the, funny we're on this topic, the agentic commerce- Mm-hmm
Angie Jones: uh, space pretty closely, so, uh, things like Universal Commerce Protocol.
Demetrios: Yeah.
Angie Jones: UCP. Um, also, uh-
Demetrios: There's Agentic Commerce Protocol. Is that one?
Angie Jones: There's, uh, uh, Agentic Payment Protocol.
Demetrios: Oh, that was it. AP2. AP- yeah, AP2.
Angie Jones: Yeah. So that's all that good stuff going on. It's fascinating because even if you figured the web browsing part out- Mm
Angie Jones: it's like, h- okay, how does it purchase? Like- Yeah ... you don't wanna give it your credit card number.
Demetrios: Yeah.
Angie Jones: Right? So people are trying to- It's a little scary ... figure that part out. Like, okay, do we give it some sort of token that it can use? Mm-hmm. Then people say, "Ah, stable coin." Mm-hmm. You know? So that's one angle, but like, it's really fascinating to see.
Angie Jones: And then I'm also exploring, uh, A2A a lot lately.
Demetrios: Yeah. What's got you excited about that?
Angie Jones: So I think this one is [00:22:00] also one that's gonna take off, uh, once people get to that point. So-
Demetrios: Oh ...
Angie Jones: some of this stuff, uh, funny, WebMCP was also a Google protocol, so is A2A.
Demetrios: Mm-hmm.
Angie Jones: They're kinda ahead in thinking about where we're headed, and so they put out protocols- It's the classic story
Angie Jones: and yeah, people are not there yet. So right now everybody's building their own agent.
Demetrios: Mm-hmm.
Angie Jones: If you're doing that.
Demetrios: Yeah.
Angie Jones: A lot of people are just consumers.
Demetrios: Yeah. Great point.
Angie Jones: And so you're using a agent, and if you've gotten to the point of building, you're building your own.
Demetrios: Mm-hmm.
Angie Jones: I got 10 agents going, but they are mine.
Demetrios: Yeah.
Angie Jones: Right? Yeah. So what happens when I make a banging agent-
Demetrios: Yeah ...
Angie Jones: that I want to publish agent as a service.
Demetrios: Yeah.
Angie Jones: And any of you can call into my agent to do stuff, 'cause I got this thing specialized.
Demetrios: Yeah. Actually, I was just talking with Justin about this, who's giving a talk at Agent Con [00:23:00] North America.
Angie Jones: Yeah.
Demetrios: And his whole thing was, this is inevitable. We're going to have agents that we can expose as a service. Yep. And others are gonna- Domain
Angie Jones: specific agents- Yep ... is what Justin called it.
Demetrios: Yep. Domain specific agents. Yeah. Exactly. And so, look, another one. Great for the- See what I mean? See what I'm talking about here?
Demetrios: But anyway, sorry, I, I digress. Probably this way. Yeah. This is us exploring the streets of Tokyo, and getting lost and getting a little out of breath on the way, trying to go up these hills. But yeah, the domain specific agents, I had a little pushback though- Did you? ... and I would love to hear your-
Angie Jones: Okay
Demetrios: thoughts on this, because my idea was, look, I see that as a potential future, but I'm not sold on the whole idea of like an agent marketplace.
Angie Jones: Okay.
Demetrios: Because I feel like the agents that [00:24:00] we have right now are good enough that there's not really a need for me to go out onto a marketplace and like, or have my agent go out onto a marketplace and sift through thousands of agents to see if it's incrementally better than what I could build myself in the moment- Yeah
Demetrios: because these agents are so good. You know what I'm saying?
Angie Jones: I think that you're thinking about it from an individual perspective-
Demetrios: Mm-hmm ...
Angie Jones: versus if you thought about this as like a business-to-business perspective. Not only is it about the capability of the agent that you have- Yeah ... it's also about the access.
Angie Jones: What does that agent even have access to, and can I get it? I may not be able to get it, right? Yeah. And therefore, I have to call into that agent because it has the access-
Demetrios: Well- ...
Angie Jones: to get what I
Demetrios: need. Okay. So I 100% agree with you on that. However, that's where we come back to WebMCP and browser use and computer use, [00:25:00] because if I have access as a human-
Angie Jones: You don't.
Demetrios: Oh, so I'm not gonna have-
Angie Jones: That's what
Demetrios: I mean. I'm not gonna have access to something- What
Angie Jones: if it's the bank-
Demetrios: Because- ...
Angie Jones: agent?
Demetrios: Yeah, and it's doing stuff behind the scenes.
Angie Jones: Yes.
Demetrios: And it's just giving me the data or the- Yes ... whatever I need. And
Angie Jones: I'm, I'm some other-
Demetrios: Huh ...
Angie Jones: like company, uh-
Demetrios: And so then you're just exposing this agent and you're saying, "Hey-" Hey.
Demetrios: if you need this, come call me." You gotta talk to
Angie Jones: me.
Demetrios: Yeah, talk to me. Because I know how my stuff works in the back end- Yeah,
Angie Jones: I got everything ...
Demetrios: much better.
Angie Jones: And that's what Justin meant about like- The agent being domain-specific. So it's not this general purpose agent that knows and does everything. It's like, no, you are a beast at this thing.
Demetrios: Yeah.
Angie Jones: Here's all the access to that thing.
Demetrios: Yeah.
Angie Jones: Right? Here's all the tools you need.
Demetrios: We fine-tuned you or we, like- That's right ... prompt tuned you. We skilled
Angie Jones: everything. You got the skill. All your skills- Yeah ... are related to this thing.
Demetrios: And that's all that matters for you. That's all- This is your
Angie Jones: world
Angie Jones: exactly. So it's a delegation thing. Mm. Like, [00:26:00] okay, I could try to figure it out, or I can go, like, call that- Just
Demetrios: ask that- ...
Angie Jones: that agent that I knows it all and has access.
Demetrios: I could see that. All right. So then that is, in your eyes, Google foresaw that coming. They created Ada. They've also created the Ada... What is it?
Demetrios: AP2?
Angie Jones: Uh...
Demetrios: Uh, Agent Payment protocol. AP2 Google created? I don't know. I don't know.
Angie Jones: It's, like,
Demetrios: WebMCP. They, like- That's what I was saying. They also, they also created WebMCP, and I heard about something just recently that was, like, a agent swarms or ku- it's built on top of Kubernetes, but it's for agents. Uh, and it was from Google too.
Angie Jones: Oh, nice.
Demetrios: And it's a, it's basically like Kubernetes orchestrator, but for agents. Ooh. And now I can't remember the word. Somebody just told me about this in a podcast recently, and I'm totally blanking on it, but I'll, I'll find it and put it in the show notes so [00:27:00] that if anybody wants to tell us, or somebody can tell us in the comments, they can let us know.
Demetrios: Like, it was that. It was a cool name too.
Angie Jones: Oh, really? It
Demetrios: was a cool name, and I can't believe I'm blanking on it. They aren't
Angie Jones: coming up with cool names anymore. No. Like, like...
Demetrios: So true. The names aren't... Like, all this Ada, V- uh, Yoda. All these just three-letter acronyms. Not cool. We gotta bring back the cool names.
Angie Jones: Bring back cool, man.
Demetrios: Yeah. Bring back the cool names. Like, the researchers, I always say this, but the researchers know how to name stuff.
Angie Jones: Really?
Demetrios: Yeah. They have catastrophic forgetting. They have hallucinating.
Angie Jones: That's true.
Demetrios: They have-- There's so many great- Thanks, right? Yeah. And you remember it. You go, "Oh yeah, that's a hallucination.
Demetrios: All right, cool." Or catastrophic. It's so dramatic when it's l- forgot it, but catastrophically. So- Yeah, I, uh, I think that's cool. I think... Is there anything else that's [00:28:00] been noteworthy? I will say that in Amsterdam, I'm super excited to see what folks come up with. There's some great talks coming through in Amsterdam.
Demetrios: Oh, yeah. So I feel like I'm gonna learn a ton. North America's coming up. It's right around the corner.
Angie Jones: That's right. Next month.
Demetrios: October 22nd and 23rd in San Jose.
Angie Jones: Yeah.
Demetrios: We're expecting, like, over 3,000 people for
Angie Jones: that.
Demetrios: Yeah. So-
Demetrios: It's gonna be a big one. Woo. We're gonna have some fun there. I'm doing livestreams. We're gonna be livestreaming the whole thing. It's gonna be, it's gonna be a blast. Now, we'll end with a few scenic shots of good old Tokyo. Think that's been awesome.
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